[Discussion] Dyatlov Pass incident

[dzN]

[Discussion]
This incident fascinates me, i remember reading it a couple of years ago and It really got me thinking into what the hell happened.
Its interesting and if anyone who hadnt heard about it post your initial reactions as well.
I heavily expect some strong theories to come from zee and ww.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident


discuss.

[centaur]

This story creeped me the fuck out a couple years ago. Aliens, man.

[Loco]

Was reading in the dark but had to turn light on, will post something constructive later.

EDIT - wow you could make a wicked documentary on this shit, aliens or they were poisoned with radiation in their food to see what happens by the government

[Mace Evans]

fucking russians. too much vodka

though, this stuff is pretty epic to read

[Mobius1]

the lack of evidence or willingness to provide or disclose evidence suggests some sort of cover up to me.

"The price of state secrets is nine lives" i dont find this to hard to belive tbh, especially when you consider some of the controversy surrounding 9/11 and the u.s governments involvment with that i dont think covering up 9 deaths is to far fetched for the soviets.

[Rotten]

It could be a cover up, it could well be all the facts are just made up and they were nuked or somethin !

If the facts are true (lol) it seems very weird as to what happened. The part that bothers me is that the tent was ripped from the inside out but then there was no struggle. My idea was that a savage animal came in the front door and they had to rip open the tent to escape, but that doesn't explain their relatively passive deaths and odd injuries. Possibly an avalanche, as said at the bottom of the article. What about a combination of the two?

The spheres... well they could be anything
We get aliens firing half circle rainbow guns at us all the time

[Turtleman]

You might want to have a read of this interesting veiwpoint.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4108

It goes onto to suggest that the radiation could of been caused by the mantles used in camping lanterns that contain thorium as well as the possibility of avalanches, which are quite common in the area though not explaining why her touge was missing (maybe the avalanch could of caused her to bite it off?) or the lights in the sky.

[Zee]

I would have linked to that ^
occam's razor- the simplest explanation tends to be the best one

[Crowbar]

You'd think it would be easy to tell if she'd bitten her own tongue off.

I recall reading about this several years ago (among other similar, unexplained incidents).

For me, it does point towards some sort of cover up.

But yeah sometimes it is the simple and obvious explanation - they went crazy after inhaling some sort of gas?! This doesn't quite cover the broken bones issue though~

[Zee]

The simple theory is that an avalanche caused the injuries, and the rest died of hypothermia. The gas lanterns are responsible for radiation. Or maybe russia had some radiative waste or something there.

With 6 billion people living on earth, weird spooky things _should_ happen pretty frequently just by coincidence! it would be weird if they didn't!

[Rotten]

Are you religious Zee?

Accepting a theory without proof

[Turtleman]

Originally Posted by Rotten

Are you religious Zee?

Accepting a theory without proof

Well actually you could argue that due to a lack of proof, the simplest answer is right and happened with zee's turn of events. Since there is nothing to suggest otherwise to a degree that the theory should be thrown out.
Its like God, We know god doesn't exist logically, but can never prove it due to the teapot theory. I think its why cases like this are so interesting, even if all the information it is nearly impossible to make a correct call, we just have to guess the one that has the most probability.

[Rotten]

Occam's razor and Russell's teapot do not apply here because there is apparent evidence of a cover up and therefore more facts are available but withheld. We have a telescope powerful enough to see the teapot but we are not allowed to use it..

[werewight]

i'd have some insight if i wasnt so busy at work

[G-nome]

Originally Posted by Mobius1

the lack of evidence or willingness to provide or disclose evidence suggests some sort of cover up to me.

"The price of state secrets is nine lives" i dont find this to hard to belive tbh, especially when you consider some of the controversy surrounding 9/11 and the u.s governments involvment with that i dont think covering up 9 deaths is to far fetched for the soviets.

leave your silly ideas about 9/11 out of this

[Mobius1]

Originally Posted by G-nome

leave your silly ideas about 9/11 out of this

i was just using it as a referencing point about potential conspiracy type theories and if it was a cover up, that great lengths of lies and deceit can and will be reached.

[G-nome]

can and will be created by conspiracy nuts*

[FiremanSam]

Originally Posted by Turtleman

You might want to have a read of this interesting veiwpoint.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4108

". Did radioactivity from some secret weapons test drive the group insane?"

Stopped reading here. The authors credibility died with this statement. Radiation can kill you, slowly or quickly, but I have never heard of it driving anyone insane no matter how bad their side effects.

[Alacrity]

Pssst...That's why it's a secret

[Zee]

Originally Posted by FiremanSam

Stopped reading here. The authors credibility died with this statement.

LOL man, keep reading... He does not advocate that theory. Just brings it up in the intro to in incident. I guess others have suggested it.

[Zee]

Originally Posted by Rotten

Are you religious Zee?

Accepting a theory without proof

lol, I'm not accepting it. I just suggested that that was the simplest explanation.

What evidence is there for a cover up? Missing documents are not evidence of a cover up imo

[Turtleman]

Originally Posted by Rotten

Occam's razor and Russell's teapot do not apply here because there is apparent evidence of a cover up and therefore more facts are available but withheld. We have a telescope powerful enough to see the teapot but we are not allowed to use it..

What evidence of a coverup? Because of the lack of facts about such a insistent doesn't necessarily mean the government is behind it. There are lot of other factors as to why the facts are hard to come by such as the avalanches and the UFO spotted in the sky that night (actually I don't think that UFO had anything to do with it since both the meteorology service and the military confirmed the UFO that night)

Just because there was scrap metal around the area, it was most likely dumped by some asshole who was to lazy to take it to the dump and I really cant see how thats coverup worthy, not only that but if you where staging a coverup, you would take the time to pick up the metal.

[dzN]

maybe the answers to individual questions should be examined...

1) why did they rip the tent open from the inside?

2) why was the person missing a tongue?

3) whats the deal with the radiation where does that come into it?


edit: yes turtleman cause if i was gonna dump some scrap metal i would go all the fucking way out there to do it.....

[Mobius1]

Originally Posted by Turtleman

What evidence of a coverup? Because of the lack of facts about such a insistent doesn't necessarily mean the government is behind it. There are lot of other factors as to why the facts are hard to come by such as the avalanches and the UFO spotted in the sky that night (actually I don't think that UFO had anything to do with it since both the meteorology service and the military confirmed the UFO that night)

Just because there was scrap metal around the area, it was most likely dumped by some asshole who was to lazy to take it to the dump and I really cant see how thats coverup worthy, not only that but if you where staging a coverup, you would take the time to pick up the metal.

They were in a remote location which suggests that if it was dumped there someone would of had to go thru a shitload of effort to get it there hence not some lazy asshole in a truck. Im not saying i definantly think its a cover up but that is the first thing that mades sense to me after reading and i dont believe in "Paranormal Activity" which rules that out.

[prod]

To be honest if you look a the factual evidence that we have, there's not actually that much to cause suspicion.

My simple theory is that there was an avalanche, the people who had skeletal injuries and a tongue missing (bitten off) were caught in the avalanche. The people with no clothes found near the camp fire in the forest managed to escape but obviously died from hypothermia.

If you take the the radio active clothing out of the picture which is the only legit/confirmed evidence that is actually abnormal there is nothing strange about this event what so ever. No one actually died from the radiation so I'm not sure how that would cause concern or reason for a government cover up, extraterrestrial occurrence or any other phenomena.

My only explanation for the radioactive clothing (not bodies) is from Thorium contained in camping lanterns and iirc is not contained in nuclear weapons or affected blast sites. Also who's to say their clothes weren't radioactive before they set off camping? They are university students in fucking 1959 Russia, I'm suprized they weren't radioactive themselves.

Lack of evidence and eyewitnesses obviously make people ask questions but, would you expect there to be eyewitnesses or much evidence in a blizzard (maybe avlanche ridden) mountain area? I would consider myself a sceptist and very open minded and definately not close minded enough to be religious, I'm also hugely fascinated and interested in space, life, earth etc but with the evidence and adding logic and reason to this I'm going with my theory. Not to say anyone's theories aren't correct or possible as I believe anything is possible.

edit: If anyone has been in the Army or knows about sleeping in sub-zero temperatures, you sleep in your underwear when in sleeping bags or else you will sweat resulting in hypothermia/death etc. (reason for them being in only their underwear)

[Rotten]

Originally Posted by Zee

lol, I'm not accepting it. I just suggested that that was the simplest explanation.

What evidence is there for a cover up? Missing documents are not evidence of a cover up imo

Well they talk about the author of the novel who was not allowed to publish his work the first and second times he created it, it was censored. When he died all his work dissapeared... also interesting.

Another point is that there is a protest website in that article that people are still trying to get access to the information and do more research, eg; reopen the case.

Originally Posted by dzN

edit: yes turtleman cause if i was gonna dump some scrap metal i would go all the fucking way out there to do it.....

^^

[Zee]

Originally Posted by dzN

maybe the answers to individual questions should be examined...

1) why did they rip the tent open from the inside?

2) why was the person missing a tongue?

3) whats the deal with the radiation where does that come into it?


edit: yes turtleman cause if i was gonna dump some scrap metal i would go all the fucking way out there to do it.....

We certainly can't answer these questions now. What happened that night will remain a mystery. But mysteries, like Scooby-doo episodes, usually have mundane explanations.

I'm not sure what you guys are saying actually. Not UFOs, right? Goverment conspiracy? Or just that it's Mysterious.

Originally Posted by Rotten

Well they talk about the author of the novel who was not allowed to publish his work the first and second times he created it, it was censored. When he died all his work dissapeared... also interesting.

Another point is that there is a protest website in that article that people are still trying to get access to the information and do more research, eg; reopen the case.

Books can be censored for any number of reasons. When it was written, "the details of the accident were kept secret". They have since been made public, with a few missng things. If he had revealed anything within those secret details, which we now have access to, it would have been censored.

People try to get police to reopen unsolved cases all the time. No suprise there really

[dzN]

I for one am saying its mysterious, i am more inclined to think it was something to do with the people than with ufo/gov anything like that.
Isnt it factual that the tent was ripped open by the inside? that tells me that the people in there were scared as fuck about something, possibly avalanche i guess.
The two people in their underwear were found near a fire, why?
also i like this bit : (*Six of the group members died of hypothermia and three of fatal injuries.)
"one doctor indicated that the fatal injuries of the three bodies could not have been caused by another human being, "because the force of the blows had been too strong and no soft tissue had been damaged""

[prod]

avalanche explains all that :S

[Zee]

they probably started a fire because they were out in the snow, for whatever reason, and were getting hypothermia

[dzN]

the existence of trees in the area indicates that it wasn't a common avalanche zone...
they didn't take any skis, food, boots, only some had clothes. Those injuries are from such force that they have been likened to a car crash.

[Zee]

Originally Posted by Brian Dunning

an elephant in the room: The possibility of avalanches being the culprit. I wanted to see how likely avalanches would have been in that area, so I looked it up on Google Earth. Turns out it's hardly the type of place you'd expect avalanches. The hills are low and rounded, much better for cross country skiing than for avalanches, at least according to my personal informal assessment from looking at the terrain on Google Earth. And, obviously, the group felt comfortable enough with any potential danger to make camp where they did. But I also found a Russian tourism brochure for the area that warns of avalanche danger on slopes steeper than 15°. According to the police reports, the slope immediately above the campsite was at 22-23°, and 50 to 100 meters above the campsite it increased to 25-30°.

I don't think you can rule avalanches out

[prod]

Fair points but I think an avalanche would be more like a mountain hitting you at 200 something kph than a car crashing into you at 80kph. And I don't think anyone would have time to put their shoes on or anything for that matter considering how fast avalanches move. Tumbling at speed amongst Ice, rocks and debris would certainly cause those injuries.

I think avalanches can technically happen on any sloped surface where there is a build up of fresh know? The area may not be avalanche prone but that doesn't mean avalanches won't occur. Basically what Zee said.

One thing I can't explain is ripping a whole in the tent from the inside..? And I also just noticed the picture of one of the tents doesn't exactly look like it's been hit by an avalanche. Perhaps that's the tent of the people who managed to escape to the tree line and the others were buried or perhaps all the tents remained like that?!

[Azmodan]

The later stages of hypothermia make your blood vessels dilate massively, giving you the feeling of being on fire - you go mental and rip their clothes off, hence why people are often found frozen to fuck half naked, could be the same deal with the tent?

As for the rest of it? super soldiers.

[Turtleman]

Originally Posted by dzN

the existence of trees in the area indicates that it wasn't a common avalanche zone...
they didn't take any skis, food, boots, only some had clothes. Those injuries are from such force that they have been likened to a car crash.

Read some articles because it was a VERY highrisk zone. High engough for the local authority to send out a booklet detailed the risks of the hike. Even if you look at the google earth map you can see it was pretty risky with mountains on both sides, even if they where not very steep it doesn't matter if there was alot of fresh snow.

There is a great summary on this website. It points out (With photos of the tent) that it was not possible to tell if the tent was cut from the inside (fabric is way to thin to tell)
http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/03/08/...pelling-force/ Highly recommend it.

^you can read it or listen to the podcast

"The Dyatlov Pass Accident is truly a horrible accident, and a fascinating story. But one doesn’t need to look at influence from UFOs, Yeti, or other supernatural explanations, or even an “unknown compelling force”. A bit of critical thinking and skeptical analysis tells the story: A group of very unlucky people stumbled into some weapons testing. The Dyatlov Pass Accident was a terrible event, but hardly a mystery. Those nine people just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time."

[prod]

lol because weapons testing gives people no other injuries but hypothermia

or is that quote out of context and trying to tell us that possible weapons testing caused an avalanche..?


edit: "A bit of critical thinking and skeptical analysis tells the story: A group of very unlucky people stumbled into some weapons testing."

OH OKAY OF COURSE

[Rotten]

lol prod
love it

[horus]

Thing about this thing is that a lot of times it is retold, certain facts are embellished or exaggerated.. I think when you look at what is actually verifiable and known it may not be all that mysterious, just some people that got caught in an avalanche or storm or something and died of hypothermia or other injuries.

The missing tongue can be explained by animals scavenging after they were dead and as for the radiation, the Soviets may have been doing secret nuclear tests of some kind there and didn't want to let on..

Still a pretty weird incident though.

[Alacrity]

I thought about scavenging animals too, but would they really stop at just the tongue?

[Mace Evans]

FUCKING ALIENS DID IT.
OBVIOUSLY THEY WERE PUT UNDER A SPELL, SO THEY WERE BRAINWASHED. THEY ACTUALLY DIED CAUSE OF INSTANT BRAIN TUMORS FROM THE ALIENS RADIATION WEAPONS.